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A Read of Ice and Fire: “The Sworn Sword” Part 2

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A Read of Ice and Fire: “The Sworn Sword” Part 2

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A Read of Ice and Fire: “The Sworn Sword” Part 2

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Published on January 9, 2014

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Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.

Today’s entry is Part 2 of “The Sworn Sword: A Tale of the Seven Kingdoms,” which originally appeared in the anthology Legends II: New Short Novels By The Masters of Modern Fantasy, edited by Robert Silverberg.

Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.

And now, the post!

The Sworn Sword: Part 2

What Happens
The recruits fail miserably at defending against a mounted charge, which Egg finds hilarious, but Dunk does not, still haunted by his dream of the night before. He tells Ser Eustace that they will not do, and they must find another way. Eustace recalls that in olden days it was possible to pay “a blood price” in reparation for harm done. He tells of how the Osgreys had once owned Coldmoat, but the Webbers laughed at him when he proposed a marriage between his son and Lord Wyman’s daughter, and he’d vowed never to go there again unless to take possession of it. Dunk volunteers to go offer the blood price in his stead, and Eustace praises him extravagantly in return. Dunk is uneasy at this, but promises to go the next day.

Dunk debates with himself over how to approach the Red Widow, and confesses to Egg that he does not know how to talk with highborn ladies. Egg is not much help beyond advising him to be “gallant.” He does advise Dunk not to drink or eat anything at Coldmoat, considering the Widow had poisoned all her husbands. He casually tells of how one of his sisters had tried to spike his drink with a love potion, but that Egg wants to be a knight of the Kingsguard, not marry. Dunk mentions how Eustace said he would have liked to offer his daughter to Dunk had she lived, and Egg says he’d rather have a clout on the ear than a wife. Egg wants to come with him to Coldmoat, but Dunk dislikes the idea of bringing him into danger, and tells him he will stay behind.

The next morning, however, Dunk finds that Egg has manipulated Eustace into agreeing that he should go. Eustace gives Dunk a cloak of green satin and gold to wear, and Dunk promises not to shame it. Eustace rides with them for part of the way, and comments to Dunk that Egg reminds him of his son Addam, who died protecting his brother Harrold in the Blackfyre Rebellion. Eustace asks whether Dunk’s master fought for the red dragon or the black; Dunk replies he fought for Lord Hayford, who was a loyalist to the crown. Dunk remembers that Ser Arlan’s first squire, Roger of Pennytree, had died in that campaign, and uneasily thinks he stole Roger’s place. Eustace tells how Lord Bloodraven had been instrumental in killing Daemon the Pretender, the black dragon, and opines it is Bloodraven who truly rules now, with Aerys as his creature, and “small wonder we are cursed.” Dunk doesn’t know how much of this Egg has overheard.

After Ser Eustace leaves them, Egg again advises Dunk to flatter Lady Webber with compliments, but Dunk is glumly unsure of his ability to pull that off, especially if the lady is ugly. Dunk stops to change into his good tunic before they come in sight of the castle, which Dunk sees has the diverted waters streaming into its moat. The guards say he must see Ser Lucas “Longinch” Inchfield before he can see the lady, and Dunk agrees.

In the courtyard, Longinch proves to be nearly but not quite as tall as Dunk, and opines that hedge knights are “beggars with blades,” and bids Dunk begone. Dunk insists that he is here to treat with Lady Webber on the Osgrey’s behalf, and Longinch divines he was with Bennis at the ford, and threatens to hang him, and demands Bennis’s head. Dunk insists on seeing the lady about the stealing of their water, and the drunken septon with Longinch influences him to let him speak. Longinch brings him to a woman in her forties, but she seems strangely vague and confused by Dunk’s reports of the dam, until they are interrupted by another woman whom Dunk had seen shooting arrows in the courtyard. He blurts that she is too young and “pretty” to be the real Lady Webber.

Lady Rohanne tells him her first husband died when she was ten, and the last died “in the spring,” meaning in the Great Spring Sickness of two years past. Dunk clumsily tries to compliment her, and Longinch opines he should be called “Ser Duncan the Dim.” The others laugh, but the lady rebukes them, and inquires after Dunk’s sigil. Dunk is enthralled by her. She has him shown to her audience chamber, and agrees when Dunk asks to have his squire join them there as well.

Egg reminds him not to drink the wine, but the septon overhears and makes light of it, drinking it himself copiously. The septon says Lady Rohanne likes Dunk, and knows him to be from King’s Landing from his speech. He tells of how the Spring Sickness ravaged the city, taking four of every ten people, including the king and his Hand. He talks of the enmity between the Blackwoods and the Brackens likely leading to war, and Dunk remembers that Lord Bloodraven had been born a bastard, Brynden Rivers, his mother a Blackwood and his father King Aegon the Fourth. Meanwhile King Aerys has no interest in fathering an heir, the septon says, and Bloodraven rules from behind the throne. Dunk sees Egg is struggling not to comment.

The septon moves on to Rohanne, and how she must marry before the next new moon or her lands pass to her father’s cousin Wendell, a stupid, flatulent man. Dunk asks why she has waited so long, and the septon says the stories of her dead husbands and children have scared off suitors, not to mention Longinch, who is determined that any suitor must best his sword first. The septon bets on Gerold Lannister, but the lady herself appears and opines that Gerold will never abandon his comforts in Lannisport. Egg is astonished that she is the Red Widow.

Rohanne apologizes to Dunk for teasing him in the courtyard, and says Ser Lucas is offended by him by being taller, hence the ruse with Lady Helicent. She asks after his history, which Dunk relates mostly honestly, and offers him a place with her house in lieu of Ser Eustace, but Dunk replies he is sworn to the lord of Osgrey. He tells her he is here to pay the blood price for Bennis’s transgression: one silver stag for the digger’s wound, and three for the lady. She declares it “a niggard’s price” and says only blood can pay for blood. Dunk suggests they ask the digger if he’d rather have a silver stag or Bennis’s head in a sack, but Rohanne says this is between “the lion and spider” now.

Dunk points out that her men rode onto Ser Eustace’s land and did harm before Bennis did on hers. Rohanne says she complained twice of “the sheep stealer” before taking matters into her own hands, and Bennis broke the king’s peace when he drew blood on her lands, and must answer for it. Dunk admits that Eustace will not give up Bennis, and ventures that the dam is the start of all the troubles, but Rohanne’s maester declares that Coldmoat supports twenty times the small fold as Standfast. Egg jumps in to point out that they are taking the water for the moat, not the fields, but Rohanne says she lived through the black dragon’s rebellion, and will not leave her moat dry. She shows Dunk a paper he cannot read, but Egg surreptitiously looks at it and confirms that it says the stream is hers, not Ser Eustace’s.

Dunk asks why the king would take the stream from the Osgreys, and the maester replies that Ser Eustace Osgrey is “a rebel and a traitor,” who swore to the black dragon in the hopes that he would restore the Osgreys to their former glory. Dunk is stunned, but says that if she will not grant the water for Ser Eustace, to do so for his son Addam, who served in Coldmoat. Rohanne slaps him in the face and orders him to leave immediately, and bring her Bennis by the next day lest she come for him with fire and sword. The septon pulls Dunk from the room, and tells him Rohanne loved Addam Osgrey, and blames Ser Eustace for his death, for sending him into battle when he was only twelve. Dunk asks the septon to tell Rohanne he did not mean to hurt her, but the septon advises him to bring Bennis or else.

After they leave the castle, Dunk asks Egg what had been written on the paper. Egg says it was a grant of rights from the king to Lord Wyman Webber for the Chequy Water and Wat’s Woods as well, but if Ser Eustace were to die without a male heir, Steadfast would revert to the crown. Dunk is amazed, but Egg points out that it left Eustace alive even though he was a traitor. Dunk asks if Egg would have executed him; thoughtfully, Egg observes that his uncle Baelor believed in clemency for defeated foes, but that Lord Bloodraven said pardoning rebels only planted seeds for the next rebellion. Egg wonders why Eustace would rise against Daeron in the first place.

Dunk thought he knew the answer , but it was not one the boy would want to hear. He wanted a castle with a lion on the gatehouse, but all he got were graves among the blackberries. When you swore a man your sword, you promised to serve and obey, to fight for him at need, not to pry into his affairs and question his allegiances… but Ser Eustace had played him for a fool. He said his sons died fighting for the king, and let me believe the stream was his.

Commentary
So, Ser Eustace was a rebel. That’s… interesting, I guess.

No, it is, and as usual Martin pulls his trick here of revealing things to be far more complicated (and less clear-cut) on the inside than they appear to be from the outside. Which is pretty cool, really, since that’s generally how things are, but also frustrating, because… that’s generally how things are.

*frown*

Am I crazy for feeling kind of grumpy that Martin insists on doing that? Seriously, what is all this realism in my epic fantasy, get out. Okay, don’t really get out, but, like, man, do ya hafta…? Ugh, FINE.

Because obviously up to this point we have been presented with the notion, via Dunk’s perspective, that his sworn liege lord was the put-upon victim of the eeeevil Lady Webber’s dastardly plot to steal his smallfolk’s livelihood. Which would have been the simple and easy way to go with the truth of the situation. But once we actually got to Lady Webber, of course, we find that (a) she actually appears to have the more legit claim to the water, and (b) she’s actually not like the rumors of her at all, at least it doesn’t seem so. So it’s all Shades of Grey, minus the sadomasochism. (Er, I think, anyway.) Which is so much more how Martin rolls that I don’t even know why I was even slightly surprised by it.

But, hey, credit where it’s due: I totally said in the last installment that it was a distinct possibility that Lady Webber wasn’t evil, so at least I didn’t completely fall for it this time. Go me!

That said, there appears to be some very Rashomon-type shenanigans going on here, especially in regards to Eustace’s son Addam. Because, if Lady Rohanne had really loved him, why would Eustace’s proposal to marry her to Addam have been so unceremoniously rejected? Which one of the two sides’ story is more true, since it doesn’t seem that both of them can be? Something is definitely putrescent in Scandahoovia about this whole situation, is what I’m saying here.

Also, if her claim that Eustace sent his son off to war at twelve is true, well, that’s… completely shitty, y’all. Even with ASOIAF’s general cluelessness re: age-appropriate times for kids to be doing appallingly adult things, that’s a little beyond the pale. (Although, Arya is, what, ten, and has assassinated like five people as of ASOS, and Daenerys is I think maybe four years older than her, tops, and has (indirectly) slaughtered entire cities’ worth of people, so… yeah, it’s just all fucked up, never mind.)

All of which leaves Dunk in quite the pickle, doesn’t it. That can’t fail to be anything but shitty, to be stuck in an oath to a guy who you’ve suddenly realized is totally an oathbreaker himself. ‘Cause I definitely tend toward the view that finding out your oath-sworn-to person has no respect for his own oaths is an immediate get-out-of-oath-free card, but I’m betting that Dunk doesn’t feel that way about it at all. Hence, dilemma.

Also, Egg, let me clear this up for you: if one side of a debate is being held up by your awesome uncle Baelor, and the other is being held up by a dude named Lord frickin’ Bloodraven, pick the obviously non-psychotic side and move on. Sheesh.

It seems silly to say this, because duh, but whatever: Longinch’s trick on Dunk with Lady Helicent was really mean. And more to Helicent than Dunk. Seriously, what a tool. He’s even more of a tool if Rohanne’s claim that he did it because he hated that Dunk was taller than him is true, because seriously, get a grip, dude. Insecure much?

(Also, your nickname makes no sense and is stupid! Nyah!)

Other than that, this had a lot of recent history and/or current political state of affairs talk in it, which I’m just going to be honest and say I kind of let my eyes glaze over about. Partially for laziness reasons, but really mostly for the fact that I am having enough trouble keeping the politics and Dramatis Personae of the main storyline straight as it is, and trying to absorb more than the most superficial bits of this hundred-years-prior stuff is just going to confuse me more, so I ain’t gonna. If that makes me a terrible person so be it.

I am conspicuously failing, by the way, to make any kind of prediction on whether Lady Rohanne is going to end up asking Dunk to marry her. Mostly because I have a strong suspicion Eustace is going to be all WE FIIIIGHT! instead of handing Bennis over, and rampant bloodshed generally seems to be kind of a damper on marriage proposals for some reason. We Shall See.


And… honestly I really don’t have much else to say about this section, so I will leave it here. Tune in next week for the exciting conclusion, and answer to Who! Gets! Water! and Who! Gets! Dead! Spin that wheel! See you next Thursday!

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Leigh Butler

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Braid_Tug
11 years ago

So this is a three part story? Have not read this one, so your outline is very helpful.

And agree with you, the current political state of the nation is rather hard to focus on.

And please, DO NOT waste your time on the 50 Shades books. P.O.S. that have lots of bad writing, boring S&M, and will set every one of your “spanking” buttons off. The girl is judgmental idiot. The guy a victim of child abuse who never learned how to really cope.

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Fehler
11 years ago

It was hard to read this without referring to the wiki.

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AeronaGreenjoy
11 years ago

Note that this story (like Hedge Knight) takes place in the Reach, where we’ve spent zero time in the first three ASOIAF books. We’re near the region’s north edge at the moment, but it’s still evidence that this vaguely storied land of peace and plenty can have political and meteorological Problems like anywhere else.

Ha, there’s sadomasochism in these boooks…and much more in we who enjoy reading them and watching others do so.

stevenhalter
11 years ago

Not a lot to say about this section. I wasn’t very suprised to find that
Eustace was on the other side. His not having a claim to the water as well pretty much means that his whole position is in the wrong. Dunk should possibly do a little more investigation on his employers.
Longinch is clearly a tool.

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11 years ago

Do not rag on the Bloodraven, cuz…well just cuz. (No Spoilers.)

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zambi76
11 years ago

And I’m sorry Leigh, but I’m kind off baffled by your speculations in the end, because from the moment we get to know that the Red Widdow isn’t a man-eating witch, but a rather unfortunate feisty young woman it was absolutely obvious to me how this story/conflict will end. And I laughed very long and hard. You think she’s going to marry Dunk? Have you read GRRM before?

See: “what is all this realism in my epic fantasy, get out.”

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11 years ago

No, the Sadomasochism is when we who have read the books get to watch as those who didn’t read the books watch the HBO show.

Braid Tug, et al, if you Google “The Sworn Sword” you can find it available to read for free on the interwebz. I only mention it because you can’t get the book for less than $100 as far as I can see.

Anthony Pero
11 years ago

The fact that Eustace doesn’t have rights to the river because a king a thousand miles away says so doesn’t really make it suck any less for the peasants who rely on the water to live. It will be interesting to see what Dunk’s inate “knightlyness” leads him to do about that little fact.

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zambi76
11 years ago

Do not rag on the Bloodraven, cuz…well just cuz. (No Spoilers.)

Acutally, I don’t know if the (No spoilers) is all that much of a reason to not rag on Bloodraven to be honest.

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11 years ago

Why is it that when you say
shades of grey
that the way
most people stray
is to think
of a thing that stinks
not provoking thinks
Why the lack of links

To Jasper Fforde’s
collection of wordes
called Shades of Grey
(which is awesome, I say)

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11 years ago

Without going all spoiler-y I will say the Bloodraven is a totally a product of all the Targaryen inbreeding BS.

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zambi76
11 years ago

Here in ole Germany a collection of all three D&E stories was already pulished last year. You can get it for 15 Euros. Of course you have to cope with the dumbass proper-nouns and names translated German.

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11 years ago

@12 if you have a Kindle, yes. Unless I’m missing something? Can the Kindle version be read on a PC without buying anything else?

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11 years ago

Why would you buy anything from Amazon?

Why would you use a Kindle?

Also, Tabby, that’s stealing. As much as I hate GRRM, I cannot condone theft.

Braid_Tug
11 years ago

@@@@@ 11, Because she added the “Er, I think.”
If she was calling to mind a great piece of literary work, it would not have to be qualified.
And sadly, while the phrase has been around for decades, currently “50 shades” basically means a craptaitic book set.
Which will fade soon, I pray.

@@@@@7, have to laugh at that.
@@@@@8, Thanks, will look around.

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Jack S. Pharaoh
11 years ago

“Can the Kindle version be read on a PC without buying anything else?”

Yes, you just need the Kindle app, which is free.

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11 years ago

There are FREE apps available from Amazon to read Kindle docs for your computer and your phone.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=sa_menu_karl?ie=UTF8&docId=1000493771

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11 years ago

Additionally, there are Kindle apps for Mac and iOS. Also free.

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11 years ago

1. The political stuff is actually really, really interesting as it bears on the state of the Targs in the principal books. Targ king has a huge bunch of bastards, many of them notable fighters and heroes, legitimizes them and gives his Valaryian steel sword to one of them. No surprise that when the King dies, the bastards move to dump the current, pretty wimpy, Targ heir. Probably some pretty good arguments that the realm would be better served by the bastard hero rather than the wimpy legitimate kid. Serving the realm and personal interest may have coincided for many of the rebels. It then plays out that the legitimate king wins, helped in large part by one of the bastards who did not follow his fellows – Bloodraven. Pretty cool political situation, that in large part leads to there being only a few Targs around during the main series (that I won’t specify for you in detail – don’t want to tell you specifically how things happened for spoiler reasons).

2. Love how GRRM is being cagy about what’s up with Bloodraven – everyone in the story keeps cursing him and thinking him evil. Is he? Or is it another Lady Webber scenario? Fascinating stuff.

3. Leigh, I thought you’d be all over the modern feminist implications of Lady Webber’s story – strong woman who being slandered publicly, treated poorly by her father and Longinch, and is just not going to put up with sh*t from her neighbor out of justifiable concern her many opponents will see it as a sign of weakness. Makes even clearer why Dunk is the proverbial rock between two hard places – loyalty to employer (and the peasants) and strong legal and moral justification for Lady Webber not to let the employer off scott free. Especially where the problem was made into a crisis by the *hole action of the *hole Bennis.

4. Of course Eustace’s request to have his son marry Lady Webber was rejected by her father. Even if the two loved each other, Eustace was a traitor. Dad no doubt figured he could find a better match than the son of a traitor, and who cares what his daughter’s preferences were.

5. Re the 12 year old son, he was probably someone’s squire. I don’t see that as uncommon. Kind of like Pod for Tyrion, and he was close enough to kill the Kingsguard dude back in Blackwater. No doubt Eustace’s son got into something that he couldn’t get out of.

6. Your prediction paragraph at the end is very amusing. Won’t comment on it though.

Rob

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Jack S. Pharaoh
11 years ago

Actually, you don’t even need the Kindle app; you can read it at Amazon in their cloud reader. Just FYI.

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TanDan
11 years ago

Martin used these stories as a pretty big info dump for the main story going forward. The info on the Blackfyre Rebellions and the Great Bastards shouldn’t be skimmed over.

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11 years ago

It’s interesting that common and noble people slander both Lady Webber and Lord Bloodraven. We’ve seen this scenario before in the main series, with Tyrion (who is actually a somewhat good guy, but is described as an Imp, a deformed monster responsible for all the problems in the realm) and Melisandre (who is described as a witch from the East, and … well, she’s very scary, fanatical and actually has magical powers). So one was justified and another wasn’t. GRRM shows that there are expectations people have from the noble class and their advisors (to be great male warriors or pious folk who follow the Seven), and if people don’t conform to them, they get instantly slandered as something else.

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11 years ago

*shrug* I buy lots of things from Amazon. Saves me the time of trying to find them in a store.

And I’m not sure that it is stealing, maybe the story was published to the web with permission; I didn’t verify.

In my case it’s a wash because I bought a GRRM book that was advertised to contain The Sworn Sword, but it did not, so I did pay for the story. GRRM has my money and I got to read The Sworn Sword. My conscience is clear.

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TG12
11 years ago

I think the whole Daeron v. Daemon (Blackfyre) thing is another one of Martin’s subtle commentaries, if you will.

There’s ample evidence, in these stories and elsewhere in the ASOIAF narrative, that Daemon was a paragon of charismatic warriorhood, and Daeron was a slump-shouldered not-warrior, and a lot of lordly types were drawn to Daemon for that reason. But I think there’s also a fair bit of subtext that it’s at-best unproven that Daemon would have been a good king-as-administrator of a large and at least somewhat complex state, while the same subtext seems to indicate that Daeron, who recall, was apparently known, unironically, as “Daeron the Good”, was a pretty competent king-as-administrator. He brought Dorne permanently into the realm, for example, via marriage alliance rather than (unsuccessful) conquest.

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11 years ago

@21: Regarding a marriage between Addam and Rohanne, I don’t think that Eustace following the Black Dragon was relevant for that decision; the way I understood it was that the proposal was rejected before the Blackfyre Rebellion (since Addam served at Coldmoat), and potentially instigated Eustace to declare for the man who offered him the former seat of his house.

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11 years ago

RobMRobM @21:

Re the 12 year old son, he was probably someone’s squire. I don’t see that as uncommon. Kind of like Pod for Tyrion, and he was close enough to kill the Kingsguard dude back in Blackwater.

IIRC, it is somewhat uncommon. Tyrion thought that Pod was too young and wanted him to stay back and Edric Dayne also said something re: how he couldn’t have been expected to kill anybody yet, he was only 12. The Hound killed his first man at 12 (during the Sack of KL by the Lannisters?), that’s true, but he is a generally messed-up individual, no?

Add the sheer stupidity of taking _all three_ of your sons into battle – something that Lord Rickard Karstark also engaged in, but at least all of his were adults.

And yes, it is worthwhile to pay attention to historical details. The fans wanted the novellas to be included into the “Read” for a reason.

Not to mention that we see in gory detail one of the major historical examples shoring up the anti-bastard prejudices, particularly against those bastards treated above their station by the noble father…
Kind of explains why Cat disliked Jon besting Robb in anything, no?

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levellersteve
11 years ago

When I gave this book to a friend, I told him to picture Ann-Margaret in BYB BYE BIRDIE

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11 years ago

And I don’t know about all the Bloodraven hate. What exactly has he done to warrant it.

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11 years ago

@24 and 26 – really thoughtful posts.

@27 – you may be right on timing. Eustace’s kid is at best a lateral move and Dad probably thought he could do better with his attractive, smart daughter. Maybe get a Lannister or higher level Reach family son in law and strengthen the house.

@28 – nicely worded re the importance of historical details to the overall read. Leigh will now pick up on all of the various the historical references in AFFC and ADWD.

Anthony Pero
11 years ago

AlirozTheConfused@17:

Because, while as an industry disrupter, Amazon is certainly no friend to the established publishing industry, more like a frenemy, there is no company on the planet that is more customer-centric. Amazon, at least in the US, bends over backwards to provide excellent customer support. In intelligible english. From US call centers. And they don’t ask any questions when you want to return something.

And if the choice is between buying from Amazon and pirating… on most books, publishers make just as much money, if not more, from Amazon as they do from other retailers. I’m sure the publisher would rather I pay for my books.

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some other guy
11 years ago

@31 It makes me wonder why some as wily as Tywin married his own cousin, that hardly advanced Lannister interests and was a sublateral move. His line owned the cadet branch anyway.

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AeronaGreenjoy
11 years ago

I’m amused that Dunk thought Rohanne too pretty to be a baddie. His experience with Aerion apparently failed to teach him that pretty people can do bad, bad things. Most of our heroes know this all too well.

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11 years ago

@@@@@ 33 some other guy

I don’t remember if it’s been said already in one of the chapters in the Read (I think Oberyn Martell tells about this), but it was said that Tywyn ruled the realm as Hand of the King, but Joanna Lannister (his cousin/wife) ruled Tywyn. I think it was a case of actual love, and Tywyn, as head of his noble house, could decide who he would marry. Joanna could’ve demanded this from him (instead of becoming a concubine or mother of his bastards), and he, loving her, wouldn’t be able to deny the request.

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some other guy
11 years ago

@35 well I guess it shows even more of what a hypocrite he was to his children, as Tywin could marry his cousin for love. He chastises Grandpa Lannister for being a nice guy pushover (and protested sister Genna’s marriage to a second Frey) yet took full advantage of it himself.

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TG12
11 years ago

@36 Yeah but his protest to both his father’s mistress and his sister’s marriage didn’t really have anything to do with love per se, it was founded in his perception (probably accurate for time and place) that both matches were unworthy of the Lannister half of the match.

In father’s case, his mistress was “getting above herself,” as a tradesman’s daughter who was now wearing their mother’s jewels and ordering Lannister House officials around. Sister Genna’s situation is actually a spoiler at this point, since we don’t meet her until next book in the re-read, but briefly stated, Tywin’s opposition was because the proposed match was beneath her.

Contrast to Tywin’s marriage, where we don’t have any clear indication that Joanna’s station was too lowly for the head of the house or his heir, as opposed to just dynastically/politically unwise, in that it didn’t give any sort of alliance to a powerful bannerman or other great House.

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11 years ago

@32: Screw the consumer. Publisher comes first, then editor, than author, then reader. At least in my opinion.

Anthony Pero
11 years ago

@38:

Lol.

Anthony Pero
11 years ago

@33, 35, 36, 37:

Lets not also forget that a youthful Tywin not thinking the same way as a world-weary Tywin 30 years later isn’t exactly hypocrisy. I don’t think you could convince anybody who has ever raised kids that trying to get them to make better choices than you did is hypocrisy.

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11 years ago

Who needs consumers anyway, they ain’t creating or distributing art.

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11 years ago

Yeah, the short stories mix with the main storyline, princippally with the political details.

In the how to get the novella debate: If you really need to find the novella just google “The Sworn Sword pdf”, and find the first result. BUT IS ILLEGAL. Come on. You already bought 5 doorstooper books from him, GRRM won’t die for downloading his short novella, and anyways you can wait for when he finishes off all the D&E series and buy it all in one book.

In the Tywin dabate: Tywin only cared for himself and his legacy (Jaime), he used everyone else as tools. The only family he cared for was his direct family (excluding Tyrion). He truly loved his wife, as GRRM have us believe and didn’t marry anyone else for respect to her.

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11 years ago

Yeah, the historical background is what sets this Dunk and Egg tale apart, I think. The events actually depicted here really don’t matter much at all, unlike with the other two short stories, but the current political and historical background discussed here actually do enhance the reader’s understanding of events in the upcoming two books (particularly in Dance, but it helps with a certain Feast chapter quite a bit as well).

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AeronaGreenjoy
11 years ago

@8 Tabbyfl55: I just discovered Otaku ASSEMBLE’s Game of Thrones episode reviews on YouTube. Hours of entertainment.

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some other guy
11 years ago

@40 good point, Kevan did mention that Tywin was a changed man after his wife/cousin died.

possible general spoiler

When you take into account all the sibling and minor Lannisters too, the majority of them are pretty decent people.

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a1ay
11 years ago

Also, if her claim that Eustace sent his son off to war at twelve is
true, well, that’s… completely shitty, y’all. Even with ASOIAF’s general cluelessness re: age-appropriate times for kids to be doing appallingly adult things, that’s a little beyond the pale.

“How old are you, Mr Hornblower?”
“Seventeen, sir.”
“Seventeen? Too old! Too old! You must go to sea at twelve if you are to make anything of yourself in the Navy.”

Nelson, of course, joined the Navy at twelve (by the age of 19 he was commanding a warship) as did Collingwood; St Vincent at 13, Troubridge at 15.

Furthermore, taking your son to war doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going into hand-to-hand fighting – apart from anything else, how much good would a twelve year old be with a sword?

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Rancho Unicorno
11 years ago

@42 – Stepping in to the “getting a copy” fray.

I suppose GRRM won’t be financially ruined by downloading a copy. Still, I think the reader that does that is doing a disservice. I ended up getting a copy of Legends from my local library (which was a surprise, since I live between two systems, and it’s the lesser system that has it). Yes, the D&E story was good, but it wasn’t the only one. I’m even enthused with Warriors, since there is a greater breadth of genre to check out.

Getting the full book from Amazon is good, but I do wish that the real version was still being published – the best way to discover is to randomly open the book and read a story.

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11 years ago

@44 – Larry’s videos are very funny, especially during the first season. the Season 1, Ep. 9 one is a classic.

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11 years ago

@44, and Rob:

Thanks for that!
I’m already laughing at his reaction to Bran getting thrown out of the window!!!

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Skyweir
11 years ago

@32: Indeed, Amazon has excellent costumer support, I live in rather unhsopitable clime that tend to wear out my Kindle (the cold gets it), but Amazon has replaced it on warranty no less than 3 times, and the new version seems to have fixed the problem.
Not only that, but the support personell have all been amazingly nice and competent.

Amazon has also been amazing the way they have humble both Apple and the publishing industry the last decade, something that was sorely needed.

As for this chapter, I love the politics and The Great Bastards. No doubt the rebellion was at least partially legitimate, andI have a softspot for bastards. Especially love Bittersteel, he was awesome.

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AeronaGreenjoy
11 years ago

@48, 49: I’ve been warned that he vociferously hates Sansa, so will know to skip over those rants. Otherwise…mwahahaha. I discovered him via the Podcast of Ice and Fire, where they occasionally interrogate him after certain especially-shocking episodes (including Baelor).

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11 years ago

It’s not about the financial effect on GRRM, it’s about the principle of the thing. Stealing and breaking the law aren’t good in normal situations.

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DougL
11 years ago

@44 AeronaGreenjoy

Haha, ya. I just started watching them, I don’t even the show, but it’s hilarious.

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CatchMeInTheRye
11 years ago

A thousand eyes and one!

Looking forward as ever to the next installment.

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11 years ago

@17. Braid_Tug
No. 11 was talking about ‘Shades of Grey’ by Jasper Fforde, which is a
really interesting and entertaining book, that I thoroughly recommend
and shouldn’t be confused with ’50 Shades of Grey’.
Although I do hope
people bought Mr Fforde’s book by mistake and read it all wondering
where the sex is :)

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11 years ago

In regards to Addam Osgrey:
“The boys were Eustace Osgrey’s sons: Edwyn, Harrold, Addam. Edwyn and Harrold had been knights, Addam a young squire. They had died on the Redgrass Field fifteen years ago, at the end of the Blackfyre Rebellion.”

“Addam served at Coldmoat, as a page and squire, and a… a certain… fondness grew up between him and Lord Wyman’s daughter. So one winter day I donned my richest raiment and went to Lord Wyman to propose a marriage. His refusal was courteous, but as I left I heard him laughing with Ser Lucas Inchfield.”

“Your Egg reminds me of my Addam. A brave boy, for one so young. Addam was trying to protect his wounded brother Harrold when the battle washed over them. A riverman with six acorns on his shield took his arm off with an ax.”

Sounds like he was serving as squire to one of his older brothers during the war, although if he was a squire at Coldmoat, I would think it would be to some other knight and not one of his brothers. In any event, since Rohanne married her first husband at the age of 10 and she is 25 now, she must have been 9 or 10 when Addam went off to war and got married soon after. And Ser Eustace long coveted Coldmoat, as his father used to show him the chequy lion carved above its gates.

To me, the most interesting line in this story thus far is “‘Twas Aegon’s son King Maegor who took Coldmoat from us, when Lord Ormond Osgrey spoke out against his supression of the Stars and Swords, as the Poor Fellows and the Warrior’s Sons were called.” I don’t recall any mention of these Poor Fellows or Warrior’s Sons in any of the books/stories so far, and there’s no explanation here, so WTH is *that* about?! Dang GRRM and his throwaway lines.

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Mar
11 years ago

@56

“To me, the most interesting line in this story thus far is “‘Twas
Aegon’s son King Maegor who took Coldmoat from us, when Lord Ormond
Osgrey spoke out against his supression of the Stars and Swords, as the
Poor Fellows and the Warrior’s Sons were called.” I don’t recall any
mention of these Poor Fellows or Warrior’s Sons in any of the
books/stories so far, and there’s no explanation here, so WTH is *that*
about?! Dang GRRM and his throwaway lines.”

Spoiler territory:

IIRC this group will show up again in FFC.

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AeronaGreenjoy
11 years ago

@57: Indeed they will.

BMcGovern
Admin
11 years ago

Hi, all–just a heads up that Leigh has been hit with the flu and wasn’t able to finish Part 3, so the post will be delayed until next week. Thanks for your patience!

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11 years ago

By “flu” you mean “kidnapped by aquatic beings who breathe methane and hate us carbon-based life forms”, right.

And “Delayed until next week” means, “we’re sending a team of teenagers WITH ATTITUDE to rescue Leigh”, right?

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DougL
11 years ago

Does Leigh work with kids or something?

stevenhalter
11 years ago

My planned cons for this year are:

Legendary Confusion — this weekend, Dearborn
Minicon 49 — April 18-20, MN
LonCon 3– August 14 – 18, London

If any of you are at any of these feel free to chat–in a non spoilery way, of course.

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some other guy
11 years ago

Leigh may have the greyscale, send her a Maester

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Wiener
11 years ago

Leigh is the GRRM of bloggers…we will all be dead by the time she doesn’t finish this read

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11 years ago

Geez, tough crowd. Get well soon, Leigh.

Anthony Pero
11 years ago

As I always say when the “delay” complains come in… Seriously, what’s the rush? She’s gonna be through all of this stuff long before the next book comes out. And even if she’s not, there’s at least one, possibly two more books after that.

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11 years ago

Very tough crowd, but LOL to the greyscale comment. I’d bet it has more to do with the Saints losing in the US football playoffs the week before, but as a Patriots fan I’m not in position to talk.

By the way, I just finished the new GRRM novella the Princess and the Queen – we’re definitely going to want Leigh to read that after AFFC and before ADWD. Very well done story – exceeded my high expectations – and useful information about dragons.

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Lord Foul's Bane
11 years ago

VERY tough crowd. Odds are Leigh will finish the reads before GRRM finishes WoW.

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Tavi
11 years ago

Woah, speak for yourself. I really disliked TPatQ. And there’s no reason to put it in front of ADWD. Especially as Leigh reads in publication order.

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11 years ago

Tavi @69 – I’m curious why we wouldn’t want to read it first. Right now we’ve teed up the pattern of two novellas, then AFFC, and the remaining D and E novella, then ADWD. I’d love to slot in another novella. I was (and to some extent still am) hoping for the fourth D and E, but I’d be more than happy with adding in the new one, especially that the new one offers additional info on dragons, a key issue in the main story as Dany’s three grow towards maturity. We could wait but what’s the benefit?

I’d also love to hear why you didn’t like the new one. Perhaps you can comment over in the spoiler thread so that we don’t accidentally let info about the principal books slip out.

Rob

P.s. Are you a Jim Butcher/Codex Alera fan?

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11 years ago

@70: TPatQ is good for really hardcore ASoiaF fans that want all the historical information, but since it reads more like a huge info dump than an actual short story I think some people are turned off by it. I personally wouldn’t be in any hurry for the read to get to it, and I can imagine Leigh experiencing a personal hell trying to write the summary section. Heck, TPatQ basically is a summary of a story that probably could have been a prequel trilogy or something if GRRM had had the time to write it.

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sako10
10 years ago

Does any one knows when will Martin release more of the Dunk and Egg tales? I Read all 3 of the currant tales, the Rogues and the Princess and the Queen as well. i know that he recently released the The World of Ice & Fire but i didnt here nothing about additional Dunk and Tales stories.

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10 years ago

@72 – he’s worked extensively on the fourth one (D and E go to Winterfell) but no idea when it will come out. My guess is he is/should be focusing on WoW now, with D and E to be finished later or in spare time.

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DougL
8 years ago

I am rereading this and I love how Leigh was all well, let’s see if George is up to something with the horrible tales about Lady Webber but jumps on Bloodraven because of a name probably given to him by others that he embraced, just like Tyrion recommended in the first few chapters of the first book.

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Gevorg
8 years ago

1. I suspect Dunk usn’t true knight – first he hesitated to give knighthood to Green Apple guy.

2. He became nervous when asked by Red Widow how he came into knighthood.

3. He never thought about being knighted (though Tyrion also didn’t think at first that he didn’t try killing Bran).

 

I also had hard time memorising main storyline supporting characters. And as there, here also I constantly checked with Wiki to be sure who we’re talking about.

Considering Osgrave (?) was fighting for the wrong site, could his battle recap be wrong and biased? Kinslayer and et cetera.

I wonder whether Osgrave really didn’t pay attention to Red Widow’s complaints or did she take matter into her hands without fair warning?

And if she needs to marry, why not Osgrave? She’ll have husband for a time until she finds appropriate one, and he’ll have access to his water. It’s not like he has a long life waiting for him.

P. S. Regarding marriage – it was Red Widow’s dad who refused. Couldn’t it be he considered Osgrave sons too low-born and/or poor for that? Just like, as Tywin said, no one wanted to marry Tyrion.